> R12 is less efficient than R134a. Head pressure must be higher for
the same
> level of cooling or more cond / evap area is needed.
> The BEST is propane, but I wouldn’t recommend it. An evaporator leak
could
> put a real fire in your cigarette.

  HC’s do work well as MVAC refrigerants, they’ve been
used for number of years in other countries without
incident. HC’s for MVAC use would probably
have higher concentrations of ethyl mercaptan in them
compared to other LPG’s. If there was an evaporator
leak, it would really stink badly long before there
was an explosive concentration of it. I think HC’s
could be safely used, perhaps not as retrofit refrigerants,
but in systems specifically designed for them where attention
has been paid to maintaining good system integrity over the
life of the vehicle.

……Fred

–== Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ==–
—Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.—

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Lyle Pakula wrote in message <37442D1A.2A19C…@cell-loc.com>…
>Sorry, the link is now gone.  It was for the Duracool R-12 replacement.  It
>was cited for an R-12 replacement in building refridgeration (wasn’t
>approved for automotive use.)

>It had a listing of the pros/cons of a multitude of cooling products, and
>their hazards.

>fr…@my-dejanews.com wrote:

>> In article <37387358.37628…@cell-loc.com>,
>>   Lyle Pakula <l…@cell-loc.com> wrote:

>> <SNIP>
>> > I think you’re a little confused (or never had you’re R-12 system
>> fully
>> > charged).  It’s a documented fact that 134A DOES NOT cool as well has
>> 12A
>> > (R12 is 30-50% colder).  Also, it’s a clinical fact that 134A causes
>> > testical cancer……….

>> > —
>> > Lyle Pakula

>>   Can you cite specific reports or documents on the
>> effects of R134a with regard to testicular cancer.
>> MVAC refrigerants of any nature, be it CFC or HFC
>> based are probably not good for your health if you
>> make a habit of breathing them in large quantities
>> on a daily basis. ALL refrigerants need to be handled
>> safely and precautions taken so that personel are not
>> exposed to excessive concentrations of ANY refrigerant.
>> R134a is no worse in that respect than any other refrigerant.
>> My current car is factory fitted with R134a and the A/C
>> blows rocks, it works just as well if not better than any
>> previous car that I had fitted with R-12. Properly done
>> retrofits with R134a have proven to work quite well on most
>> cars as long as the retrofit was done in accordance to factory
>> issued guidelines.

>> ……Fred

>> –== Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ==–
>> —Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.—

> Team Goon xDxIx wrote:

12A———————-snip———————

> (R12 is 30-50% colder).  Also, it’s a clinical fact that 134A causes
> testical cancer……….
> Lyle Pakula

   Lyle, your not suppost to spray it on your balls, your suppost to
put it in the system…..

–== Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ==–
—Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.—

When R134 came out it was publicized that it would not cool as good as
R12.
I sure would like to see some statistics proving just what is
happening.  Perhaps someone has A/C maintenance procedures.  There it
will specify what the drop in temperature should be.  I suspect that
they have made up for the drop in efficiency by making the system bigger
and moving more air.

Dick

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

"Blake N." wrote:

> Don’t know how much this adds to the
> discussion, but Motor Trend tested 8
> trucks in Death Valley last summer and
> reported that the GM trucks became
> very popular with the field testers because
> of their "meat locker" A/C systems.

> All of the newer cars I have been in with
> the R134 are much colder than any older
> car or truck I know of with the R12.

> >> I think you’re a little confused (or never had you’re R-12 system
> >fully
> >> charged).  It’s a documented fact that 134A DOES NOT cool as well has
> >12A
> >> (R12 is 30-50% colder).  Also, it’s a clinical fact that 134A causes
> >> testical cancer……….

> >R134a is no worse in that respect than any other refrigerant.
> >My current car is factory fitted with R134a and the A/C
> >blows rocks, it works just as well if not better than any
> >previous car that I had fitted with R-12. Properly done
> >retrofits with R134a have proven to work quite well on most
> >cars as long as the retrofit was done in accordance to factory
> >issued guidelines.

> >……Fred

It had a listing of the pros/cons of a multitude of cooling products, and
their hazards.

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

fr…@my-dejanews.com wrote:
> In article <37387358.37628…@cell-loc.com>,
>   Lyle Pakula <l…@cell-loc.com> wrote:

> <SNIP>
> > I think you’re a little confused (or never had you’re R-12 system
> fully
> > charged).  It’s a documented fact that 134A DOES NOT cool as well has
> 12A
> > (R12 is 30-50% colder).  Also, it’s a clinical fact that 134A causes
> > testical cancer……….

> > —
> > Lyle Pakula

>   Can you cite specific reports or documents on the
> effects of R134a with regard to testicular cancer.
> MVAC refrigerants of any nature, be it CFC or HFC
> based are probably not good for your health if you
> make a habit of breathing them in large quantities
> on a daily basis. ALL refrigerants need to be handled
> safely and precautions taken so that personel are not
> exposed to excessive concentrations of ANY refrigerant.
> R134a is no worse in that respect than any other refrigerant.
> My current car is factory fitted with R134a and the A/C
> blows rocks, it works just as well if not better than any
> previous car that I had fitted with R-12. Properly done
> retrofits with R134a have proven to work quite well on most
> cars as long as the retrofit was done in accordance to factory
> issued guidelines.

> ……Fred

> –== Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ==–
> —Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.—

All of the newer cars I have been in with
the R134 are much colder than any older
car or truck I know of with the R12.

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

>> I think you’re a little confused (or never had you’re R-12 system
>fully
>> charged).  It’s a documented fact that 134A DOES NOT cool as well has
>12A
>> (R12 is 30-50% colder).  Also, it’s a clinical fact that 134A causes
>> testical cancer……….
>R134a is no worse in that respect than any other refrigerant.
>My current car is factory fitted with R134a and the A/C
>blows rocks, it works just as well if not better than any
>previous car that I had fitted with R-12. Properly done
>retrofits with R134a have proven to work quite well on most
>cars as long as the retrofit was done in accordance to factory
>issued guidelines.

>……Fred

I believe someone’s been sniffin’ a little too much r12~~  ;-)
I invite you to sit in my Caravan on a hot summer day!

new url for my webpage:
http://radhouse.tech.nu
my usenet group:
news:alt.madhousebbs

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

>It’s a crazy world,
>Have fun with it!  - Jerry Springer
>What’s another word for thesaurus?
>Why is the word abbreviation so long?

<SNIP>
> I think you’re a little confused (or never had you’re R-12 system
fully
> charged).  It’s a documented fact that 134A DOES NOT cool as well has
12A
> (R12 is 30-50% colder).  Also, it’s a clinical fact that 134A causes
> testical cancer……….

> —
> Lyle Pakula

  Can you cite specific reports or documents on the
effects of R134a with regard to testicular cancer.
MVAC refrigerants of any nature, be it CFC or HFC
based are probably not good for your health if you
make a habit of breathing them in large quantities
on a daily basis. ALL refrigerants need to be handled
safely and precautions taken so that personel are not
exposed to excessive concentrations of ANY refrigerant.
R134a is no worse in that respect than any other refrigerant.
My current car is factory fitted with R134a and the A/C
blows rocks, it works just as well if not better than any
previous car that I had fitted with R-12. Properly done
retrofits with R134a have proven to work quite well on most
cars as long as the retrofit was done in accordance to factory
issued guidelines.

……Fred

–== Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ==–
—Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.—

I think you’re a little confused (or never had you’re R-12 system fully
charged).  It’s a documented fact that 134A DOES NOT cool as well has 12A
(R12 is 30-50% colder).  Also, it’s a clinical fact that 134A causes
testical cancer……….

–
Lyle Pakula