Does anyone have a used grill for sale for my 89 Buick century? Used in good condition will be fine. Please reply via e-mail as I don’t read these groups regularly.
J. P. Ratch <jra…@pb.net> wrote in message news:926046829.191.6@news.remarQ.com…
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> Can I recharge my AC myself, or do I need to pay a shop upwards of $50 just > to boost the refrigerant level a bit? Overall the AC is in great shape, but > the car (88 Chevy Celebrity) had been sitting for a few years before I got > it, so the pressure is rather low- it cools, but not terribly well. Is it > easy/safe/legal for me to recharge it on my own, and if so, where do I get > it and how do I put it in? I really would rather avoid wasting $50 on it at > a shop if I could save a few bucks myself. > -jratch
Pay $20 or so for a license. Then you will be able to buy R-12 freon in 12 ounce cans at most parts stores. If your AC is working at all, one can will probably do it. You will also have to buy a hose with the proper fittings. Adding freon is about as difficult as adding a quart of oil. However, when you add all this up you will probably be right back at $50. A can of freon used to cost 89 cents. Thank the EPA!
J. P. Ratch <jra…@pb.net> wrote:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
> Can I recharge my AC myself, or do I need to pay a shop upwards of $50 just > to boost the refrigerant level a bit? Overall the AC is in great shape, but > the car (88 Chevy Celebrity) had been sitting for a few years before I got > it, so the pressure is rather low- it cools, but not terribly well. Is it > easy/safe/legal for me to recharge it on my own, and if so, where do I get > it and how do I put it in? I really would rather avoid wasting $50 on it at > a shop if I could save a few bucks myself. > -jratch
In article <926046829.19…@news.remarQ.com>, "J. P. Ratch" <jra…@pb.net> wrote:
> Can I recharge my AC myself, or do I need to pay a shop upwards of $50 just > to boost the refrigerant level a bit? Overall the AC is in great shape, but > the car (88 Chevy Celebrity) had been sitting for a few years before I got > it, so the pressure is rather low- it cools, but not terribly well. Is it > easy/safe/legal for me to recharge it on my own, and if so, where do I get > it and how do I put it in? I really would rather avoid wasting $50 on it at > a shop if I could save a few bucks myself. > -jratch
It is my understanding that legally, shops can’t just "boost" your refrigerant anymore. They are required to evacuate the system, test for leaks, and then recharge. R12 is now very expensive and unavailable for the DIYer. However, I have seen kits at auto parts stores that allow conversion to R134A, consisting of new valves, lubricant and instructions. But then, legally, you are prohibited from discharging the old R12 into the atmosphere when evacuating the system. Supposed to use recovery R12 equipment. Together with less expensive R134A, the conversion can be done for about $50. Many feel that the newer R134A does not cool as well as the R12 did. My suggestion, bite the bullet and pay a reputable shop to test your system, and follow their advice to recharge with R12 or upgrade to R134A.
Cartan
———–== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==———- http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
Gordon D. Anderson (anders…@dmapub.dma.org) wrote: : Pay $20 or so for a license. Then you will be able to buy R-12 freon in : 12 ounce cans at most parts stores. If your AC is working at all, one : can will probably do it. You will also have to buy a hose with the : proper fittings. Adding freon is about as difficult as adding a quart of : oil. However, when you add all this up you will probably be right back at : $50. A can of freon used to cost 89 cents. Thank the EPA!
Now it costs upwards to 12.00 a can. Talking about price gouging. My car uses R134 & anyone can get it.
It is perfectly legal to add R-12 refrigerant to an older system. Obviously, if that system is leaking badly, the leak should be repaired. R-12 is now expensive! However, it used to be considered normal for any car to leak 1/2 pound or so per year and this small leakage is difficult to detect. Downgrading to 134A is a very bad idea unless many components are replaced and that costs hundreds of bucks. Just changing the fittings with a "kit" and then recharging with 134A is really asking for trouble although, admittedly, some folks seem to be getting away with it.
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car…@my-dejanews.com wrote: > In article <926046829.19…@news.remarQ.com>, > "J. P. Ratch" <jra…@pb.net> wrote: >> Can I recharge my AC myself, or do I need to pay a shop upwards of $50 just >> to boost the refrigerant level a bit? Overall the AC is in great shape, but >> the car (88 Chevy Celebrity) had been sitting for a few years before I got >> it, so the pressure is rather low- it cools, but not terribly well. Is it >> easy/safe/legal for me to recharge it on my own, and if so, where do I get >> it and how do I put it in? I really would rather avoid wasting $50 on it at >> a shop if I could save a few bucks myself. >> -jratch
> It is my understanding that legally, shops can’t just "boost" your > refrigerant anymore. They are required to evacuate the system, test for > leaks, and then recharge. R12 is now very expensive and unavailable for the > DIYer. However, I have seen kits at auto parts stores that allow conversion > to R134A, consisting of new valves, lubricant and instructions. But then, > legally, you are prohibited from discharging the old R12 into the atmosphere > when evacuating the system. Supposed to use recovery R12 equipment. > Together with less expensive R134A, the conversion can be done for about $50. > Many feel that the newer R134A does not cool as well as the R12 did. My > suggestion, bite the bullet and pay a reputable shop to test your system, and > follow their advice to recharge with R12 or upgrade to R134A. > Cartan > ———–== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==———- > http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
Perfectly legal if you have a license to do it. I went to return R-134A and was asked if I showed my installer’s licesne or whatever they call it when I bought the refrigerant.
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"Gordon D. Anderson" wrote: > It is perfectly legal to add R-12 refrigerant to an older system. > Obviously, if that system is leaking badly, the leak should be repaired. > R-12 is now expensive! However, it used to be considered normal for any > car to leak 1/2 pound or so per year and this small leakage is difficult > to detect. Downgrading to 134A is a very bad idea unless many components > are replaced and that costs hundreds of bucks. Just changing the fittings > with a "kit" and then recharging with 134A is really asking for trouble > although, admittedly, some folks seem to be getting away with it.
> car…@my-dejanews.com wrote: > > In article <926046829.19…@news.remarQ.com>, > > "J. P. Ratch" <jra…@pb.net> wrote: > >> Can I recharge my AC myself, or do I need to pay a shop upwards of $50 just > >> to boost the refrigerant level a bit? Overall the AC is in great shape, but > >> the car (88 Chevy Celebrity) had been sitting for a few years before I got > >> it, so the pressure is rather low- it cools, but not terribly well. Is it > >> easy/safe/legal for me to recharge it on my own, and if so, where do I get > >> it and how do I put it in? I really would rather avoid wasting $50 on it at > >> a shop if I could save a few bucks myself. > >> -jratch
> > It is my understanding that legally, shops can’t just "boost" your > > refrigerant anymore. They are required to evacuate the system, test for > > leaks, and then recharge. R12 is now very expensive and unavailable for the > > DIYer. However, I have seen kits at auto parts stores that allow conversion > > to R134A, consisting of new valves, lubricant and instructions. But then, > > legally, you are prohibited from discharging the old R12 into the atmosphere > > when evacuating the system. Supposed to use recovery R12 equipment. > > Together with less expensive R134A, the conversion can be done for about $50. > > Many feel that the newer R134A does not cool as well as the R12 did. My > > suggestion, bite the bullet and pay a reputable shop to test your system, and > > follow their advice to recharge with R12 or upgrade to R134A.
> > Cartan
> > ———–== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==———- > > http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
>Together with less expensive R134A, the >conversion can be done for about $50.
I converted my Caravan to R-134a 3 years ago myself. I didn’t have to evacuate the system, because a hose had busted, which I replaced myself. >Many feel that the newer R134A does not cool >as well as the R12 did.
That is absolute nonsense. My AC feels MUCH COOLER with the R-134a! >My suggestion, bite the bullet and pay >reputable shop to test your system, and follow >their advice to recharge with R12 or upgrade >to R134A.
You can go to an AC shop to have your system evacuated, but go to Auto Zone & buy the conversion kit, & do it yourself.
Team Goon xDxIx wrote: > >Together with less expensive R134A, the > >conversion can be done for about $50. > I converted my Caravan to R-134a 3 years ago myself. I didn’t have to > evacuate the system, because a hose had busted, which I replaced myself. > >Many feel that the newer R134A does not cool > >as well as the R12 did. > That is absolute nonsense. My AC feels MUCH COOLER with the R-134a!
I think you’re a little confused (or never had you’re R-12 system fully charged). It’s a documented fact that 134A DOES NOT cool as well has 12A (R12 is 30-50% colder). Also, it’s a clinical fact that 134A causes testical cancer……….
> I think you’re a little confused (or never had you’re R-12 system fully > charged). It’s a documented fact that 134A DOES NOT cool as well has 12A > (R12 is 30-50% colder). Also, it’s a clinical fact that 134A causes > testical cancer……….
Lyle… an R12 system will cool down to 31 degrees F, an R134 will go to 34F… where’s this magical 30-50% ?
>I think you’re a little confused (or never had >you’re R-12 system fully charged). It’s a >documented fact that 134A DOES NOT cool >as well has 12A (R12 is 30-50% colder). Also, >it’s a clinical fact that 134A causes testical >cancer……….
I believe someone’s been sniffin’ a little too much r12~~ ;-) I invite you to sit in my Caravan on a hot summer day!
In article <37387358.37628…@cell-loc.com>, Lyle Pakula <l…@cell-loc.com> wrote:
<SNIP> > I think you’re a little confused (or never had you’re R-12 system fully > charged). It’s a documented fact that 134A DOES NOT cool as well has 12A > (R12 is 30-50% colder). Also, it’s a clinical fact that 134A causes > testical cancer……….
> — > Lyle Pakula
Can you cite specific reports or documents on the effects of R134a with regard to testicular cancer. MVAC refrigerants of any nature, be it CFC or HFC based are probably not good for your health if you make a habit of breathing them in large quantities on a daily basis. ALL refrigerants need to be handled safely and precautions taken so that personel are not exposed to excessive concentrations of ANY refrigerant. R134a is no worse in that respect than any other refrigerant. My current car is factory fitted with R134a and the A/C blows rocks, it works just as well if not better than any previous car that I had fitted with R-12. Properly done retrofits with R134a have proven to work quite well on most cars as long as the retrofit was done in accordance to factory issued guidelines.
……Fred
–== Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ==– —Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.—
Don’t know how much this adds to the discussion, but Motor Trend tested 8 trucks in Death Valley last summer and reported that the GM trucks became very popular with the field testers because of their "meat locker" A/C systems.
All of the newer cars I have been in with the R134 are much colder than any older car or truck I know of with the R12.
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>> I think you’re a little confused (or never had you’re R-12 system >fully >> charged). It’s a documented fact that 134A DOES NOT cool as well has >12A >> (R12 is 30-50% colder). Also, it’s a clinical fact that 134A causes >> testical cancer………. >R134a is no worse in that respect than any other refrigerant. >My current car is factory fitted with R134a and the A/C >blows rocks, it works just as well if not better than any >previous car that I had fitted with R-12. Properly done >retrofits with R134a have proven to work quite well on most >cars as long as the retrofit was done in accordance to factory >issued guidelines.
I have a 1998 Chev. Pickup and a relative has a 1995 Lumina and both have R134 system. Neither cools anything like my 1987 Buick, 1988 Safari or 1993 Safari. Of course the Safari’s were slow due to the size of the passenger compartment but the air coming out of the vents got much colder than what I get out of the R134 systems.
When R134 came out it was publicized that it would not cool as good as R12. I sure would like to see some statistics proving just what is happening. Perhaps someone has A/C maintenance procedures. There it will specify what the drop in temperature should be. I suspect that they have made up for the drop in efficiency by making the system bigger and moving more air.
Dick
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"Blake N." wrote:
> Don’t know how much this adds to the > discussion, but Motor Trend tested 8 > trucks in Death Valley last summer and > reported that the GM trucks became > very popular with the field testers because > of their "meat locker" A/C systems.
> All of the newer cars I have been in with > the R134 are much colder than any older > car or truck I know of with the R12.
> >> I think you’re a little confused (or never had you’re R-12 system > >fully > >> charged). It’s a documented fact that 134A DOES NOT cool as well has > >12A > >> (R12 is 30-50% colder). Also, it’s a clinical fact that 134A causes > >> testical cancer……….
> >R134a is no worse in that respect than any other refrigerant. > >My current car is factory fitted with R134a and the A/C > >blows rocks, it works just as well if not better than any > >previous car that I had fitted with R-12. Properly done > >retrofits with R134a have proven to work quite well on most > >cars as long as the retrofit was done in accordance to factory > >issued guidelines.
Sorry, the link is now gone. It was for the Duracool R-12 replacement. It was cited for an R-12 replacement in building refridgeration (wasn’t approved for automotive use.)
It had a listing of the pros/cons of a multitude of cooling products, and their hazards.
> <SNIP> > > I think you’re a little confused (or never had you’re R-12 system > fully > > charged). It’s a documented fact that 134A DOES NOT cool as well has > 12A > > (R12 is 30-50% colder). Also, it’s a clinical fact that 134A causes > > testical cancer……….
> > — > > Lyle Pakula
> Can you cite specific reports or documents on the > effects of R134a with regard to testicular cancer. > MVAC refrigerants of any nature, be it CFC or HFC > based are probably not good for your health if you > make a habit of breathing them in large quantities > on a daily basis. ALL refrigerants need to be handled > safely and precautions taken so that personel are not > exposed to excessive concentrations of ANY refrigerant. > R134a is no worse in that respect than any other refrigerant. > My current car is factory fitted with R134a and the A/C > blows rocks, it works just as well if not better than any > previous car that I had fitted with R-12. Properly done > retrofits with R134a have proven to work quite well on most > cars as long as the retrofit was done in accordance to factory > issued guidelines.
> ……Fred
> –== Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ==– > —Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.—
R12 is less efficient than R134a. Head pressure must be higher for the same level of cooling or more cond / evap area is needed. The BEST is propane, but I wouldn’t recommend it. An evaporator leak could put a real fire in your cigarette.
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Lyle Pakula wrote in message <37442D1A.2A19C…@cell-loc.com>… >Sorry, the link is now gone. It was for the Duracool R-12 replacement. It >was cited for an R-12 replacement in building refridgeration (wasn’t >approved for automotive use.)
>It had a listing of the pros/cons of a multitude of cooling products, and >their hazards.
>fr…@my-dejanews.com wrote:
>> In article <37387358.37628…@cell-loc.com>, >> Lyle Pakula <l…@cell-loc.com> wrote:
>> <SNIP> >> > I think you’re a little confused (or never had you’re R-12 system >> fully >> > charged). It’s a documented fact that 134A DOES NOT cool as well has >> 12A >> > (R12 is 30-50% colder). Also, it’s a clinical fact that 134A causes >> > testical cancer……….
>> > — >> > Lyle Pakula
>> Can you cite specific reports or documents on the >> effects of R134a with regard to testicular cancer. >> MVAC refrigerants of any nature, be it CFC or HFC >> based are probably not good for your health if you >> make a habit of breathing them in large quantities >> on a daily basis. ALL refrigerants need to be handled >> safely and precautions taken so that personel are not >> exposed to excessive concentrations of ANY refrigerant. >> R134a is no worse in that respect than any other refrigerant. >> My current car is factory fitted with R134a and the A/C >> blows rocks, it works just as well if not better than any >> previous car that I had fitted with R-12. Properly done >> retrofits with R134a have proven to work quite well on most >> cars as long as the retrofit was done in accordance to factory >> issued guidelines.
>> ……Fred
>> –== Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ==– >> —Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.—
In article <mt113.186$C81.14…@news.cwix.com>, "patti.wisniewski" <patti.wisniew…@cwix.com> wrote:
> R12 is less efficient than R134a. Head pressure must be higher for the same > level of cooling or more cond / evap area is needed. > The BEST is propane, but I wouldn’t recommend it. An evaporator leak could > put a real fire in your cigarette.
HC’s do work well as MVAC refrigerants, they’ve been used for number of years in other countries without incident. HC’s for MVAC use would probably have higher concentrations of ethyl mercaptan in them compared to other LPG’s. If there was an evaporator leak, it would really stink badly long before there was an explosive concentration of it. I think HC’s could be safely used, perhaps not as retrofit refrigerants, but in systems specifically designed for them where attention has been paid to maintaining good system integrity over the life of the vehicle.
……Fred
–== Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ==– —Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.—
Bingo, Several European countries use HC as refrigerants in their cars. It was the manufactures lobby that stopped its use here with scare tactics of fire and explosion possibilities. Sure they do exist but don’t forget a AC system only contains .5 to 1 kilogram of refrigerant, compared to a gas tank of 50 liters or a propane cylinder of 70 liters or a high pressure natural gas cylinder at 25,000 kpa. Then there is the cost factor LPG is cheap compared to 134A or R12. So way to go Dupont to corner the market of auto refrigerants.
You won’t be able to get your hands on R-12 refrigerant as a DIYer without
certification, etc. You are gonna have to get a shop to do it.
–
Robert Hancock Saskatoon, SK, Canada
To email, remove "nospam" from hanco…@nospamhome.com
Home Page: http://members.home.net/hancockr
J. P. Ratch <jra…@pb.net> wrote in message
news:926046829.191.6@news.remarQ.com…
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
> Can I recharge my AC myself, or do I need to pay a shop upwards of $50
just
> to boost the refrigerant level a bit? Overall the AC is in great shape,
but
> the car (88 Chevy Celebrity) had been sitting for a few years before I got
> it, so the pressure is rather low- it cools, but not terribly well. Is it
> easy/safe/legal for me to recharge it on my own, and if so, where do I get
> it and how do I put it in? I really would rather avoid wasting $50 on it
at
> a shop if I could save a few bucks myself.
> -jratch
Pay $20 or so for a license. Then you will be able to buy R-12 freon in
12 ounce cans at most parts stores. If your AC is working at all, one
can will probably do it. You will also have to buy a hose with the
proper fittings. Adding freon is about as difficult as adding a quart of
oil. However, when you add all this up you will probably be right back at
$50. A can of freon used to cost 89 cents. Thank the EPA!
J. P. Ratch <jra…@pb.net> wrote:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
> Can I recharge my AC myself, or do I need to pay a shop upwards of $50 just
> to boost the refrigerant level a bit? Overall the AC is in great shape, but
> the car (88 Chevy Celebrity) had been sitting for a few years before I got
> it, so the pressure is rather low- it cools, but not terribly well. Is it
> easy/safe/legal for me to recharge it on my own, and if so, where do I get
> it and how do I put it in? I really would rather avoid wasting $50 on it at
> a shop if I could save a few bucks myself.
> -jratch
In article <926046829.19…@news.remarQ.com>,
"J. P. Ratch" <jra…@pb.net> wrote:
> Can I recharge my AC myself, or do I need to pay a shop upwards of $50 just
> to boost the refrigerant level a bit? Overall the AC is in great shape, but
> the car (88 Chevy Celebrity) had been sitting for a few years before I got
> it, so the pressure is rather low- it cools, but not terribly well. Is it
> easy/safe/legal for me to recharge it on my own, and if so, where do I get
> it and how do I put it in? I really would rather avoid wasting $50 on it at
> a shop if I could save a few bucks myself.
> -jratch
It is my understanding that legally, shops can’t just "boost" your
refrigerant anymore. They are required to evacuate the system, test for
leaks, and then recharge. R12 is now very expensive and unavailable for the
DIYer. However, I have seen kits at auto parts stores that allow conversion
to R134A, consisting of new valves, lubricant and instructions. But then,
legally, you are prohibited from discharging the old R12 into the atmosphere
when evacuating the system. Supposed to use recovery R12 equipment.
Together with less expensive R134A, the conversion can be done for about $50.
Many feel that the newer R134A does not cool as well as the R12 did. My
suggestion, bite the bullet and pay a reputable shop to test your system, and
follow their advice to recharge with R12 or upgrade to R134A.
Cartan
———–== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==———-
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
Gordon D. Anderson (anders…@dmapub.dma.org) wrote:
: Pay $20 or so for a license. Then you will be able to buy R-12 freon in
: 12 ounce cans at most parts stores. If your AC is working at all, one
: can will probably do it. You will also have to buy a hose with the
: proper fittings. Adding freon is about as difficult as adding a quart of
: oil. However, when you add all this up you will probably be right back at
: $50. A can of freon used to cost 89 cents. Thank the EPA!
Now it costs upwards to 12.00 a can. Talking about price gouging. My car
uses R134 & anyone can get it.
It is perfectly legal to add R-12 refrigerant to an older system.
Obviously, if that system is leaking badly, the leak should be repaired.
R-12 is now expensive! However, it used to be considered normal for any
car to leak 1/2 pound or so per year and this small leakage is difficult
to detect. Downgrading to 134A is a very bad idea unless many components
are replaced and that costs hundreds of bucks. Just changing the fittings
with a "kit" and then recharging with 134A is really asking for trouble
although, admittedly, some folks seem to be getting away with it.
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
car…@my-dejanews.com wrote:
> In article <926046829.19…@news.remarQ.com>,
> "J. P. Ratch" <jra…@pb.net> wrote:
>> Can I recharge my AC myself, or do I need to pay a shop upwards of $50 just
>> to boost the refrigerant level a bit? Overall the AC is in great shape, but
>> the car (88 Chevy Celebrity) had been sitting for a few years before I got
>> it, so the pressure is rather low- it cools, but not terribly well. Is it
>> easy/safe/legal for me to recharge it on my own, and if so, where do I get
>> it and how do I put it in? I really would rather avoid wasting $50 on it at
>> a shop if I could save a few bucks myself.
>> -jratch
> It is my understanding that legally, shops can’t just "boost" your
> refrigerant anymore. They are required to evacuate the system, test for
> leaks, and then recharge. R12 is now very expensive and unavailable for the
> DIYer. However, I have seen kits at auto parts stores that allow conversion
> to R134A, consisting of new valves, lubricant and instructions. But then,
> legally, you are prohibited from discharging the old R12 into the atmosphere
> when evacuating the system. Supposed to use recovery R12 equipment.
> Together with less expensive R134A, the conversion can be done for about $50.
> Many feel that the newer R134A does not cool as well as the R12 did. My
> suggestion, bite the bullet and pay a reputable shop to test your system, and
> follow their advice to recharge with R12 or upgrade to R134A.
> Cartan
> ———–== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==———-
> http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
Perfectly legal if you have a license to do it. I went to return R-134A and was asked
if I showed my installer’s licesne or whatever they call it when I bought the
refrigerant.
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
"Gordon D. Anderson" wrote:
> It is perfectly legal to add R-12 refrigerant to an older system.
> Obviously, if that system is leaking badly, the leak should be repaired.
> R-12 is now expensive! However, it used to be considered normal for any
> car to leak 1/2 pound or so per year and this small leakage is difficult
> to detect. Downgrading to 134A is a very bad idea unless many components
> are replaced and that costs hundreds of bucks. Just changing the fittings
> with a "kit" and then recharging with 134A is really asking for trouble
> although, admittedly, some folks seem to be getting away with it.
> car…@my-dejanews.com wrote:
> > In article <926046829.19…@news.remarQ.com>,
> > "J. P. Ratch" <jra…@pb.net> wrote:
> >> Can I recharge my AC myself, or do I need to pay a shop upwards of $50 just
> >> to boost the refrigerant level a bit? Overall the AC is in great shape, but
> >> the car (88 Chevy Celebrity) had been sitting for a few years before I got
> >> it, so the pressure is rather low- it cools, but not terribly well. Is it
> >> easy/safe/legal for me to recharge it on my own, and if so, where do I get
> >> it and how do I put it in? I really would rather avoid wasting $50 on it at
> >> a shop if I could save a few bucks myself.
> >> -jratch
> > It is my understanding that legally, shops can’t just "boost" your
> > refrigerant anymore. They are required to evacuate the system, test for
> > leaks, and then recharge. R12 is now very expensive and unavailable for the
> > DIYer. However, I have seen kits at auto parts stores that allow conversion
> > to R134A, consisting of new valves, lubricant and instructions. But then,
> > legally, you are prohibited from discharging the old R12 into the atmosphere
> > when evacuating the system. Supposed to use recovery R12 equipment.
> > Together with less expensive R134A, the conversion can be done for about $50.
> > Many feel that the newer R134A does not cool as well as the R12 did. My
> > suggestion, bite the bullet and pay a reputable shop to test your system, and
> > follow their advice to recharge with R12 or upgrade to R134A.
> > Cartan
> > ———–== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==———-
> > http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
>Together with less expensive R134A, the
>conversion can be done for about $50.
I converted my Caravan to R-134a 3 years ago myself. I didn’t have to
evacuate the system, because a hose had busted, which I replaced myself.
>Many feel that the newer R134A does not cool
>as well as the R12 did.
That is absolute nonsense. My AC feels MUCH COOLER with the R-134a!
>My suggestion, bite the bullet and pay
>reputable shop to test your system, and follow
>their advice to recharge with R12 or upgrade
>to R134A.
You can go to an AC shop to have your system evacuated, but go to Auto
Zone & buy the conversion kit, & do it yourself.
new url for my webpage:
http://radhouse.tech.nu
my usenet group:
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>It’s a crazy world,
>Have fun with it! - Jerry Springer
>What’s another word for thesaurus?
>Why is the word abbreviation so long?
Team Goon xDxIx wrote:
> >Together with less expensive R134A, the
> >conversion can be done for about $50.
> I converted my Caravan to R-134a 3 years ago myself. I didn’t have to
> evacuate the system, because a hose had busted, which I replaced myself.
> >Many feel that the newer R134A does not cool
> >as well as the R12 did.
> That is absolute nonsense. My AC feels MUCH COOLER with the R-134a!
I think you’re a little confused (or never had you’re R-12 system fully
charged). It’s a documented fact that 134A DOES NOT cool as well has 12A
(R12 is 30-50% colder). Also, it’s a clinical fact that 134A causes
testical cancer……….
–
Lyle Pakula
> I think you’re a little confused (or never had you’re R-12 system fully
> charged). It’s a documented fact that 134A DOES NOT cool as well has 12A
> (R12 is 30-50% colder). Also, it’s a clinical fact that 134A causes
> testical cancer……….
Lyle… an R12 system will cool down to 31 degrees F, an R134 will go to
34F… where’s this magical 30-50% ?
>I think you’re a little confused (or never had
>you’re R-12 system fully charged). It’s a
>documented fact that 134A DOES NOT cool
>as well has 12A (R12 is 30-50% colder). Also,
>it’s a clinical fact that 134A causes testical
>cancer……….
I believe someone’s been sniffin’ a little too much r12~~ ;-)
I invite you to sit in my Caravan on a hot summer day!
new url for my webpage:
http://radhouse.tech.nu
my usenet group:
news:alt.madhousebbs
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>It’s a crazy world,
>Have fun with it! - Jerry Springer
>What’s another word for thesaurus?
>Why is the word abbreviation so long?
In article <37387358.37628…@cell-loc.com>,
Lyle Pakula <l…@cell-loc.com> wrote:
<SNIP>
> I think you’re a little confused (or never had you’re R-12 system
fully
> charged). It’s a documented fact that 134A DOES NOT cool as well has
12A
> (R12 is 30-50% colder). Also, it’s a clinical fact that 134A causes
> testical cancer……….
> —
> Lyle Pakula
Can you cite specific reports or documents on the
effects of R134a with regard to testicular cancer.
MVAC refrigerants of any nature, be it CFC or HFC
based are probably not good for your health if you
make a habit of breathing them in large quantities
on a daily basis. ALL refrigerants need to be handled
safely and precautions taken so that personel are not
exposed to excessive concentrations of ANY refrigerant.
R134a is no worse in that respect than any other refrigerant.
My current car is factory fitted with R134a and the A/C
blows rocks, it works just as well if not better than any
previous car that I had fitted with R-12. Properly done
retrofits with R134a have proven to work quite well on most
cars as long as the retrofit was done in accordance to factory
issued guidelines.
……Fred
–== Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ==–
—Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.—
Don’t know how much this adds to the
discussion, but Motor Trend tested 8
trucks in Death Valley last summer and
reported that the GM trucks became
very popular with the field testers because
of their "meat locker" A/C systems.
All of the newer cars I have been in with
the R134 are much colder than any older
car or truck I know of with the R12.
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
>> I think you’re a little confused (or never had you’re R-12 system
>fully
>> charged). It’s a documented fact that 134A DOES NOT cool as well has
>12A
>> (R12 is 30-50% colder). Also, it’s a clinical fact that 134A causes
>> testical cancer……….
>R134a is no worse in that respect than any other refrigerant.
>My current car is factory fitted with R134a and the A/C
>blows rocks, it works just as well if not better than any
>previous car that I had fitted with R-12. Properly done
>retrofits with R134a have proven to work quite well on most
>cars as long as the retrofit was done in accordance to factory
>issued guidelines.
>……Fred
I have a 1998 Chev. Pickup and a relative has a 1995 Lumina and both
have R134 system. Neither cools anything like my 1987 Buick, 1988
Safari or 1993 Safari. Of course the Safari’s were slow due to the size
of the passenger compartment but the air coming out of the vents got
much colder than what I get out of the R134 systems.
When R134 came out it was publicized that it would not cool as good as
R12.
I sure would like to see some statistics proving just what is
happening. Perhaps someone has A/C maintenance procedures. There it
will specify what the drop in temperature should be. I suspect that
they have made up for the drop in efficiency by making the system bigger
and moving more air.
Dick
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
"Blake N." wrote:
> Don’t know how much this adds to the
> discussion, but Motor Trend tested 8
> trucks in Death Valley last summer and
> reported that the GM trucks became
> very popular with the field testers because
> of their "meat locker" A/C systems.
> All of the newer cars I have been in with
> the R134 are much colder than any older
> car or truck I know of with the R12.
> >> I think you’re a little confused (or never had you’re R-12 system
> >fully
> >> charged). It’s a documented fact that 134A DOES NOT cool as well has
> >12A
> >> (R12 is 30-50% colder). Also, it’s a clinical fact that 134A causes
> >> testical cancer……….
> >R134a is no worse in that respect than any other refrigerant.
> >My current car is factory fitted with R134a and the A/C
> >blows rocks, it works just as well if not better than any
> >previous car that I had fitted with R-12. Properly done
> >retrofits with R134a have proven to work quite well on most
> >cars as long as the retrofit was done in accordance to factory
> >issued guidelines.
> >……Fred
Sorry, the link is now gone. It was for the Duracool R-12 replacement. It
was cited for an R-12 replacement in building refridgeration (wasn’t
approved for automotive use.)
It had a listing of the pros/cons of a multitude of cooling products, and
their hazards.
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
fr…@my-dejanews.com wrote:
> In article <37387358.37628…@cell-loc.com>,
> Lyle Pakula <l…@cell-loc.com> wrote:
> <SNIP>
> > I think you’re a little confused (or never had you’re R-12 system
> fully
> > charged). It’s a documented fact that 134A DOES NOT cool as well has
> 12A
> > (R12 is 30-50% colder). Also, it’s a clinical fact that 134A causes
> > testical cancer……….
> > —
> > Lyle Pakula
> Can you cite specific reports or documents on the
> effects of R134a with regard to testicular cancer.
> MVAC refrigerants of any nature, be it CFC or HFC
> based are probably not good for your health if you
> make a habit of breathing them in large quantities
> on a daily basis. ALL refrigerants need to be handled
> safely and precautions taken so that personel are not
> exposed to excessive concentrations of ANY refrigerant.
> R134a is no worse in that respect than any other refrigerant.
> My current car is factory fitted with R134a and the A/C
> blows rocks, it works just as well if not better than any
> previous car that I had fitted with R-12. Properly done
> retrofits with R134a have proven to work quite well on most
> cars as long as the retrofit was done in accordance to factory
> issued guidelines.
> ……Fred
> –== Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ==–
> —Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.—
R12 is less efficient than R134a. Head pressure must be higher for the same
level of cooling or more cond / evap area is needed.
The BEST is propane, but I wouldn’t recommend it. An evaporator leak could
put a real fire in your cigarette.
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
Lyle Pakula wrote in message <37442D1A.2A19C…@cell-loc.com>…
>Sorry, the link is now gone. It was for the Duracool R-12 replacement. It
>was cited for an R-12 replacement in building refridgeration (wasn’t
>approved for automotive use.)
>It had a listing of the pros/cons of a multitude of cooling products, and
>their hazards.
>fr…@my-dejanews.com wrote:
>> In article <37387358.37628…@cell-loc.com>,
>> Lyle Pakula <l…@cell-loc.com> wrote:
>> <SNIP>
>> > I think you’re a little confused (or never had you’re R-12 system
>> fully
>> > charged). It’s a documented fact that 134A DOES NOT cool as well has
>> 12A
>> > (R12 is 30-50% colder). Also, it’s a clinical fact that 134A causes
>> > testical cancer……….
>> > —
>> > Lyle Pakula
>> Can you cite specific reports or documents on the
>> effects of R134a with regard to testicular cancer.
>> MVAC refrigerants of any nature, be it CFC or HFC
>> based are probably not good for your health if you
>> make a habit of breathing them in large quantities
>> on a daily basis. ALL refrigerants need to be handled
>> safely and precautions taken so that personel are not
>> exposed to excessive concentrations of ANY refrigerant.
>> R134a is no worse in that respect than any other refrigerant.
>> My current car is factory fitted with R134a and the A/C
>> blows rocks, it works just as well if not better than any
>> previous car that I had fitted with R-12. Properly done
>> retrofits with R134a have proven to work quite well on most
>> cars as long as the retrofit was done in accordance to factory
>> issued guidelines.
>> ……Fred
>> –== Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ==–
>> —Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.—
In article <37387358.37628…@cell-loc.com>,
Lyle Pakula <l…@cell-loc.com> wrote:
> Team Goon xDxIx wrote:
12A———————-snip———————
> (R12 is 30-50% colder). Also, it’s a clinical fact that 134A causes
> testical cancer……….
> Lyle Pakula
Lyle, your not suppost to spray it on your balls, your suppost to
put it in the system…..
–== Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ==–
—Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.—
In article <mt113.186$C81.14…@news.cwix.com>,
"patti.wisniewski" <patti.wisniew…@cwix.com> wrote:
> R12 is less efficient than R134a. Head pressure must be higher for
the same
> level of cooling or more cond / evap area is needed.
> The BEST is propane, but I wouldn’t recommend it. An evaporator leak
could
> put a real fire in your cigarette.
HC’s do work well as MVAC refrigerants, they’ve been
used for number of years in other countries without
incident. HC’s for MVAC use would probably
have higher concentrations of ethyl mercaptan in them
compared to other LPG’s. If there was an evaporator
leak, it would really stink badly long before there
was an explosive concentration of it. I think HC’s
could be safely used, perhaps not as retrofit refrigerants,
but in systems specifically designed for them where attention
has been paid to maintaining good system integrity over the
life of the vehicle.
……Fred
–== Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ==–
—Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.—
Bingo,
Several European countries use HC as refrigerants in their cars. It was the
manufactures lobby that stopped its use here with scare tactics of fire and
explosion possibilities. Sure they do exist but don’t forget a AC system
only contains .5 to 1 kilogram of refrigerant, compared to a gas tank of 50
liters or a propane cylinder of 70 liters or a high pressure natural gas
cylinder at 25,000 kpa. Then there is the cost factor LPG is cheap compared
to 134A or R12. So way to go Dupont to corner the market of auto
refrigerants.